Grace: What is your migration status in Morocco? Do you have full Moroccan citizenship?
Interviewee: Yes, I have national cards here for Morocco.
Grace: Do you have friends that are migrants and/or refugees from sub-Saharan Africa here?
Interviewee: The friends that I have are from Liberia who are students, they usually come for around 6 months to study.
Grace: Can these students work while they are here in Morocco?
Interviewee: No they can not because if you want to work here you have to have a baccalaureate degree from Morocco and have a national card. They do not have these things so they can just go to school here.
Grace: So how do they survive economically? Do their families send them money?
Interviewee: Yes so first they have “bours” from Liberia. Normally the “bours” come every month. But we have some problems there with the government, so now for like four moths they have not sent the “bours”. But we have MCE here. Which is a Moroccan association here for the students that come from the outside from like Liberia or Guinea. They give them like 1,200 Dirham every two months. And they have told me that that is not enough for them. And me too I do not have BURS.
Grace: What is BURS?
Interviewee: It is like a bit of money governments give you to go and study. Yes. They have BURS because they have Liberian passport. But me, I do not have Liberian passport yet so that is why I do not receive my BURS.
Grace: Are these wealthy students? Or how do they have the ability to come here to study?
Interviewee: No, they come here to study. We have a lot of students, some that want to do medicine, or law, or architecture so they come to Morocco to study and then go back to Liberia to work.
Grace: Okay so the Liberian government funds for them to come here and study and then they have to go back and work in Liberia.
Interviewee: Yes.
Grace: So how do you feel that sub-Saharan migrants are received in Moroccan society?
Interviewee: Yes, but when first they came here they taught me, Moroccans, taught me that they do not really respect them 100%. Like when they walk past him, they say a lot of bad things, insult him, all of the bad things. They do not like this, because one day we have two girls students and two Moroccans stole their phones with a knife. Yeas so it is not good, they are really scared, they go home by 7 or 8 pm at night. Now they think Moroccans are not good, not a good people. But I say no, every country you go you have good and bad people. I told them you have to take care
Grace: Do you talk to Moroccans about this? Do you say why are you acting like this, why do you think less of these people?
Interviewee: Yes, I ask Moroccans, why do you do that? First I think, Arab people, it is like this, they do not have sense. A stranger passes and they call him “Nigga” or “Azi”, this is not good. Maybe they do it because maybe they are not educated. That is why they call them this word. Me too I do not like this. I do not want to ask them why they call them these names because I already know. Because when I was young, me, I was born in Rabat and I was going to school with Moroccan people so I know Moroccan people how they work and how they live with strangers here. And I wish from here, 10 years or 20 years people will change their mind here.
Grace: How do you think there could be a change? We have similar issues in the USA and we are working towards a solution and I do not know what the right solution is, do you have any ideas or recommendations?
Interviewee: In the USA, when you call a black man Nigga he is happy. Because the rappers we watch on Instagram or Youtube they call themselves Nigga and they like it but here in Africa when you call me Nigga it is an insult. So they don’t like this. Even my father had a lot of problems with this here, when he goes out from the house they call him names. They insult him. And me too when I hear that I feel bad. But I told him to have patience, Moroccan people are like this.
Grace: I am confused and interested with their intentions by calling out these names. It does not seem like they are trying to be offense or they do not understand why saying things like this would be offensive.
Interviewee: They do not know what it means to be racist. Sometimes I think when they are calling out these names they think they are doing great things. Me too I do not know how they are thinking. It makes no sense to call out names at a black man, you need to respect him. If he asks you something you should show him.
Grace: Do you think that these sub-Saharans are perceived differently based on their status as refugee, asylum seeker, or citizen? Do you think there are different perceptions or they are all the same?
Interviewee: I think that it is all the same.
Grace: So you don’t there is a concept of the difference between a migrant and a refugee? Perhaps in the way they are treated or perceived by society?
Interviewee: Yes refugees are more cared for, they give them money every month to pay their rent, and all of this stuff. They want to be better every stranger here, they don’t like when someone comes from the outside, they do not like for people here to help them or give them money. They want themselves to be better than anyone.
Grace: What do you mean they want them to be better than everyone else?
Interviewee: You know when a Moroccan hears thatches association give the refugees money or give them money to pay their rent or send him to school or send him to the USA, they don’t like it. They want themselves too to get money and send them to the USA.
Grace: What do you think about Moroccos regularization campaigns for migrants and refugees where they are giving tons of migrants citizenship? Do you know anything about this?
Interviewee: No I don’t know about that.
Grace: So basically the European Union gave Morocco a ton of money to keep these migrants in Morocco and give them citizenship so they would not try to go to Europe. But then it is difficult because society and the culture did not change with that. So now there is all of these refugees and immigrants here that now have citizenship but they do not have opportunity or employment options.
Interviewee: Who the strangers?
Grace: The strangers?
Interviewee: Like you talk about the strangers do not have work here?
Grace: The sub-Saharan migrants can not find work here.
Interviewee: I do not think they will find work here. Even if they find work here it will just be in a coffee shop, or house keeper, or car parker/cleaner. They can work on contract at a fast food place or at a call center. Even if they come as a student and finish their studies and he goes and works in an association like this, yes he can.
Grace: Why do you think that it is that migrants and refugees will have university level education in their home countries or extensive work experience but it seems as though this education and experience that happened in their home country is not recognized in Moroccan society, why do you think that this is?
Interviewee: For me, maybe it is because they see them as strangers. I know Moroccan people, they are racist. Not all, we have some educated people that can understand how these people are suffering and how we need to help them. I would say that 70% of Moroccans are racist and they don’t understand what is going on.
Grace: Why do you think they are racist? I know this is a big question, but do you think it is cultural misunderstanding, different religions, different languages, what is at the root of this racism?
Interviewee: For me it is because they are not informed and educated about the subject. Maybe if someone gave them information about why we need to help these people and what resources would assist them, then maybe they would understand. But people are not educated and informed in that way. Even when they go to school they want to go just for work, they don’t go to university or if they go to get their baccalaureate they simply go to work after that. So they just want to work or go to Europe but also they want to go to Europe with no goals. Usually when you want to migrate to a new country you migrate with goals or something you want to go there for some reason. But people want to go there for no reason, just to be there and take pictures.
Grace: Yes, also it is difficult because Moroccan citizens are struggling with employment and aren’t doing that well economically so it is hard to say, hey let's accept all of these migrants and refugees. How big of a part do you think that has to play in racism?
Interviewee: Yea like if Moroccans all said, lets be okay with this and accept them I do not see that happening, maybe in the coming years.
Grace: Do you feel like a big part of it has to do with the Moroccan economy and the fact that are not a lot of employment opportunities for them already?
Interviewee: A lot of jobs for them?
Grace: Yea.
Interviewee: No. First we have the space for them, like we have people coming as students, from all over the place, Gabon, Guinea, or Liberia. Like we have space for these students but I do no think they will have work here after their studies. Yea because even the Liberian people, the Liberian students, if you ask them, after you finish school do you want to work here or do you want to go back to Liberia? And they will say go back to Liberia. First because they miss their families and second because Moroccan treat them poorly. They insult them, take their phones.
Grace: So how do you feel about this situation as a person thats father is from sub-Saharan Africa and mom is from Morocco? How do you feel Morocco sees you?
Interviewee: Yea me too sometimes I wonder. I wonder how my father is African and my mother is Moroccan. I do not find a lot of people like me. In Europe or the United States you see a lot of people like this, but in Morocco not so much. My father was here in Morocco studying and when he finished his studies he started working here at the Liberian embassy. Then he met my mother here who was a dentist and they got married and had me and my brother. Now my father is back in Liberia because he was having a problem in the embassy. They had not paid him for three months and everyone in the embassy was scared to talk to the ambassador about why he was not paying them. And my dad is not like this, if he has a problem he is going to talk. So he went outside and he was screaming at the embassy, what is the problem. Asking why are you not paying us, for three months, we have families, we have children. So because he caused problems he was sent back to Liberia and is working with the government there and he might be sent to Gabon or Guinea to work. But he will not come back to Morocco because he has a problem with the ambassador here. So now he can come and visit us here but he can not work here. It is difficult here to find work. Last summer we were searching for a job for three months and could not find anything. For girls it is, they want to find a job and they find one easily. But for boys it is very difficult. For me it is like, I find I need to work, and get paid, and go out of the family house.
Grace: What do you mean?
Interviewee: I mean like I am 22 years old now so I feel like I need to go out of school, I do not need to be with my mom always, giving me money all the time. Because if I do that now I will be capable for myself in the coming years.
Grace: What are you going to school for? What jobs are you applying to?
Interviewee: I am studying law, this is my first year. We will see how that progresses. I have also applied to visa’s in the USA and the UK
Grace: Me and Saad were talking about that so much the other day, only really seeing opportunity in Europe or North America. Like do you see yourself staying Morocco?
Interviewee: Absolutely not. Because the ideas me and my friends have will not work in Morocco. Maybe they will work in Europe or the USA. Like for example I want to play football. But here in Morocco if your father works for parliament or is a very very great person, then you will play. Like you have to have good connections in order to play. But in Europe or USA you just have to have the skills and they will give you a chance. But here in Morocco I know a lot of good players that are just at home who have tried and tried and tried but they are just stuck at home.
Grace: What jobs were you applying for when you could not get a job?
Interviewee: For when we are in school jobs like work in fast food, or call center something like this.
Grace: So can you apply to jobs working a law office while you are in school?
Interviewee: Yes.
Grace: Are you not thinking of practicing law in Morocco?
Interviewee: Well first of all I am studying French here in Morocco.
Grace: How do you think the Moroccan economy could be improved to make you want to stay? Like how could it be changed to be improved?
Interviewee: They have to give young people and students more chances. Like when people are graduating, they do not find any work. They go to the parliament for protests, and the police come and beat them. And 90% young students want to quit Morocco, for many reasons, like lack of chance, lack of opportunity.
Grace: How do you think that the situation could be improved?
Interviewee: I think that the people in parliament right now needs to change. And replace them with educated people who want to help the young generation. Because every year we see people that want to go to Spain in the water, and they day. Like last month they found 21 people dead in the water in Melilia. This is because they wanted to go to Spain and get a job there and a better life. I think they need to change the parliament and have people that want to work for their country.
Grace: Yea, do you think it would help if the monarchies power changed? Because a lot of people say that the parliament has no power because the monarchy does not give them any power.
Interviewee: Uhm I think that the parliament that is currently in power has a lot of money and they only think about themselves and their families. While there are a lot of opportunities here but they are only taking them for themselves. Because here in Morocco if you have money you will live good where if you don’t you will suffer a lot. People who have money here do not feel the suffering that poor people feel. I hope in the coming years everything will change.
Grace: What do you mean?
Interviewee: I hope that the government and the parliament will change and they will be working better for their country.
Grace: How could it work better for the people.
Interviewee: Work better?
Grace: I feel like a lot of what you are talking about is the idea that there is huge wealth inequality and only the people at the top have access to wealth and power, how do you think it could be spread among the people?
Interviewee: Like the king here has a lot of money and normally we have a lot of musicians that talk about this issue, and say that he needs to disperse this money. But he doesn’t do this, and we have a lot of suffering and death. I think they need to change our minds and be like European countries, or countries that work better for their people.